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It’s easy to decry the loss of attractions we loved from Walt Disney World’s past. I spend a good amount of time remembering classics like Horizons, If You Had Wings, and World of Motion that have been gone for quite a while. Nostalgia definitely plays a role in those positive thoughts, but it’s hardly that simple. One reason that I enjoy the Retro Disney World Podcast is because it reminds me how interesting those past attractions really were. Brian P. Miles is one of the hosts of that show and my guest on this episode of The Tomorrow Society Podcast.
Miles and I dive into his background and his interest in taking such a close look at Walt Disney World history. Our conversation dives into a lot of diverse territory including these topics:
- What other venues now provide the type of entertainment initially offered at EPCOT Center?
- Would today’s guests still have the same interest in EPCOT Center’s attractions?
- Why is it so important to preserve Walt Disney World’s forgotten history?
- Which extinct attractions would Miles love to experience again?
- What events are coming up from the Retro Disney World hosts?
We also talk about the new venture from Miles and co-hosts, The Lake Buena Vista Historical Society. The non-profit organization provides a single place to compile all the various information and artifacts from Disney World’s past. I’m excited to see where this new venture goes in the future and will be following it closely.
Show Notes: Brian P. Miles
Learn more about the Retro Disney World Podcast and check out their vintage films at RetroWDW.com.
Support the Lake Buena Vista Historical Society at lbvhistory.org.
Follow Brian P. Miles and the Retro Disney World Podcast on Twitter, and visit the Retro Disney World Podcast page on Facebook.
Related Podcasts
Tomorrow Society Podcast, Episode 44: How Bowers, Retro Disney World Podcast
Tomorrow Society Podcast, Episode 43: Steve Alcorn on Building EPCOT Center
Hey Dan – I love your podcast, and I enjoyed this episode – although I have to say that I’m not sure I agree with Brian’s explanation of Epcot’s downfall. I have trouble believing that local science museums discourage visits to Epcot anymore than I believe local zoos discourage visits to Animal Kingdom or local kiddie parks discourage visits to Magic Kingdom. I can’t imagine anyone ever saying, “Why would I want to ride Test Track or Soarin’ or watch Illuminations when I can go to the McWane Center in Birmingham?” If you know what’s actually in the park, they’re just not even remotely at the same level, even now.
It’s also not obvious to me that Disney is “responding to guest demand” by forcing IPs into the park and allowing the non-IP attractions to mostly rot, or that Disney now has a “vision” for the park in any form whatsoever. I’ll give you that there was real demand for Frozen, but I don’t really buy that Nemo, the Three Caballeros, Ratatouille or even the Guardians of the Galaxy (tomorrow’s Roger Rabbit, IMHO) are driven by guest demand in any significant way. Disney might believe IPs are “safer,” and they might think they’re making good marketing decisions by “increasing the presence” of various IPs, but 2 of the longest lines in the park are still for non-IP attractions (Soarin’/Test Track). If Disney actually bothered to create compelling, up-to-date original attractions, people would eat it up same as they always do.
I suspect that the real problem with Epcot is that, regardless of whether it’s the 80’s or now, entertainment with a mission is an uphill battle. Rather than giving people what they already know they want, you’re trying to inspire people to discover something new – to get them to care about what you care about. Some percentage of people will always have a baseline level of resentment toward edutainment, so making it work requires leadership with a vision and a desire to see it through, which they haven’t had since 1984. Eisner allowed Epcot to continue in its original vision for a time, but as soon as things started to go south in Disney generally, leadership didn’t have the willpower to keep it up. Walt really cared about life in the future. Later Disney leadership did not.
Does Epcot have a coherent vision now? Absolutely not. Disney will allow old Epcot rides to continue rotting adjacent to unrelated, Universal-style IP-in-a-can attractions, because that’s the easy thing to do, and they do not care very much about park-wide theme. The Epcot “spine” revamp is, IMHO, very unlikely to actually occur, unless they figure out how it results in more immediate revenue sources (removal of large portions of Communicore doesn’t accomplish this).
Is the idea of a World’s Fair now obsolete because I can find out what’s in the future on the internet? That assumes that you only go to World’s Fairs for information – but what if you go for experiences? What if you go to actually discover what it’s like to LIVE in the future? What if you go to experience wild possibilities, not next year’s tech demos? I believe that something like the original Epcot Center could certainly be successful in today’s world if a Walt-like figure with vision and ambition who believed in a brighter tomorrow was pushing for it. I am under no illusion that this will ever happen, but let’s not pretend that Disney has a compelling alternative vision for Epcot either – they’ve simply abandoned the park’s mission, and are doing whatever they consider to be the path of least resistance for the short term.
Thanks for letting me ramble and grouse! I love your podcast. Keep it up!
Chris, thanks for the great comment. Your points make sense, and it’s a complicated issue with Epcot. They did add Wonders of Life, Maelstrom, and some great updates like the Jeremy Irons version of Spaceship Earth under Eisner. But most of the best examples were in the first half of his tenure. During the later years, you could see the changes in the approach and lost interest in the early themes. Test Track and Soarin’ weren’t IP-based attractions, and I don’t feel like they were way off base. It was just an adjustment to the model. It’s really under Iger where the park has changed even further, and I’m not sure they have a cohesive plan at all beyond adding IPs and drawing more families with characters.
In terms of why it changed, I think it’s true that Disney has ceded the educational message of Epcot to venues like science centers and just to the Internet in general. That isn’t true with the Animal Kingdom in the same way, but it’s a little easier than trying to keep the EPCOT Center approach going. That’s not the only reason it’s changed, obviously. Attendance was huge for EPCOT Center in its opening years; I remember waiting in big lines for even the Universe of Energy. But it’s mostly stagnated for a long time. I think that Disney looks at adding Guardians and Ratatouille as a way to push up attendance, which will probably happen. What’s less exciting is the way that it makes Epcot just another commodity and less of a unique park. I am more excited to see if they move forward with a World Showcase pavilion, especially if the budget is high. That could be something to see. So there’s some promise on the horizon for the park, I hope.