55. Composer Mark Mancina on the Music of Moana, Tarzan, and The Lion King

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It’s easy to take movie scores for granted, yet they’re so important to a successful film. When the music clicks, everything feels right. This point especially applies to animated films, where songs combine with images to connect with our emotions. A perfect example is Disney’s Moana, which offers tunes that fit comfortably within the story. The music gives important plot details and sticks with us long after credits have rolled. Composer Mark Mancina has composed numerous scores that fit this mold. In diverse films like Moana, Speed, and August Rush, his work has the right touch.

Mancina is my guest on this episode of The Tomorrow Society Podcast to discuss his career writing music for movies and television. Along with action hits like Training Day and Twister, Mancina has composed for many Disney projects. Our conversation focuses on that work, which started with The Lion King. Mancina also wrote music for Tarzan, Brother Bear, and The Haunted Mansion. Most recently, he collaborated with Lin-Manuel Miranda and Opetaiai Foa’I on Moana.

During our fun discussion, Mancina and I cover these questions about his work:

• How did he get interested in composing music when he was young?
• How did Mancina’s background in classic rock help his work with artists like Elton John and Phil Collins?
• What were the challenges in adapting The Lion King for the stage musical?
• Why was working on The Haunted Mansion such a great experience?
• What were the hurdles creating the score for Moana during the long project?

I loved the chance to speak with Mancina about his career. It gave me a greater appreciation for difficulties creating songs that stand the test of time. If you’re interested in soundtracks or just a Disney fan, this podcast is definitely worth a listen.

Show Notes: Mark Mancina

Learn more about Mark Mancina’s career and music at his official website.

Read about the August Rush musical in a Washington Post article from February.

Related Podcasts

Bruce Broughton on Spaceship Earth, The Timekeeper, Cinemagique, and More (Episode 33)

Paul Leonard-Morgan on Creating the Score for Test Track (Episode 45)

Transcript

Dan Heaton: Hey there. Today. I am thrilled to be bringing you this show with Mark Mancina who has composed the music for so many classic films including quite a few with Disney. You’re listening to the Tomorrow Society Podcast.

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Dan Heaton: Thanks so much for joining me here on Episode 55 of The Tomorrow Society Podcast. I am your host, Dan Heaton. It’s easy to take movie soundtracks for granted when you look at Disney films. Some of them have songs that we hear repeatedly and they just sort of become part of the zeitgeist. You don’t think that much about what you’re hearing especially when you have kids. My youngest daughter constantly will play certain soundtracks to a point where I barely hear them anymore.

Just there a little while back, I was driving with my daughter and we had the Moana soundtrack on the radio. She was being quiet in the back and just looking out the window and I listened closer than I usually do and I like the songs a lot, but it really hit me. These songs are brilliant. This is one of the best soundtracks Disney’s done in years because I took the time to really think about the songs and dig further than just the enjoyment in the movies.

I mention Moana because the composer of a lot of that music particularly the score was Mark Mancina, who is my guest today on the podcast. Moana is just one of many scores he’s done. Mark worked on action films like Speed and Twister and Training Day and worked on Disney films like the Planes films and Tarzan and Brother Bear. There are so many including The Lion King that he’s been involved with, so it was really exciting to get to learn more about his story and how these films came together and some of the challenges in putting together scores for these soundtracks that almost feel magical like they just appear with the movie.

And of course it is not that simple. So I loved hearing from Mark about some of the tricks and hurdles that you have to overcome to finalize a movie soundtrack. It takes an immense level of talent and organization to be able to connect that so well with what happens on the screen. Because we see it when it doesn’t work out the movies just don’t click without good music. So let’s go talk to Mark Mancina.

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Dan Heaton: My guest today has composed the scores for many films and TV series including Speed, Training Day, and Twister. He’s also worked frequently with Disney on music for Tarzan, The Haunted Mansion, and Moana. Most recently he also did songs for the Rivers of Light nighttime show at the Animal Kingdom. It is Mark Mancina. Mark, thanks so much for doing the podcast.

Mark Mancina: Thanks for saying my name correctly.

Dan Heaton: I do my research; I try my best. So before we dive into the specific work, I’d love to learn more just about your background. How did you get interested in composing music?

Mark Mancina: I’m one of the lucky ones that knew exactly what I wanted to do and I was really, really young. As far as writing music goes, I would pick up an instrument. I would tend to want to write something rather than learn necessarily you know with a book or something like that. I took lessons and I did all those different things, but I would almost always would sit at the piano or sit with a guitar and write something rather than want to learn somebody else’s stuff.

Dan Heaton: How early on from there did you think, I want to write for films and TV and entertainment versus writing your own compositions for other mediums?

Mark Mancina: Well, I never thought about the film work through high school. I always thought that films would be really a cool thing to do when you’re old you know. I don’t know why I would associate that but I think it was probably just because when you would see film composers in those days they would always be pretty gray and you would just think, wow that’s a pretty dignified job. But I never really aimed to work in film or television or any of that. I was really trying to figure out how to get paid to write music. I had no idea how you could possibly do that, but I tried just about every avenue I could think of. Mostly songwriting you know. It evolved into film opportunities.

Dan Heaton: Right. So you mentioned songwriting. You’ve worked with some rock musicians and such. Did you have an interest in playing in a band full time?

Mark Mancina: I did. I played in a band from fourth grade until I was 31, and I played pretty much close to five to six nights a week starting when I was 20. I was in several bands, but all of them were really pretty good and they were all mostly original stuff. And then of course we have to eat. We’d have to play Top 40 and whatever was happening. But I was really fortunate because in the early 80s and mid 80s there was an avenue of playing music and getting paid but playing whatever you wanted. So my band, we would play Genesis and we would play Peter Gabriel.

We’d play really interesting stuff and get paid for it and people wanted to come and listen to us, and so it was like learning stuff that I probably wouldn’t have learned. Like Steely Dan and stuff like that. But I had to learn it because we played it. So it kind of took me into all different areas of music that I otherwise would have never visited.

Dan Heaton: So how much do you think all of that especially like those early rock bands I mean early for the 80s and such? How much did that influence how you brought your style and when you started composing for movies?

Mark Mancina: Well for sure. I think that what changed for me was in 1971 right around that period where the Beatles were done and you had people expanding kind of on the Beatles later work so you had groups like King Crimson and early Genesis and Yes and Jethro Tull. All these guys that were groups that were coming out that were expanding upon the idea that writing a pop song wasn’t just about the mating ritual. It could also be about all sorts of bizarre things, and a song could be 45 minutes long and all that kind of opened up the rock world for me because I was kind of I never was much of the Eagles and that kind of stuff that was never kind of music that I gravitated towards. The more complex stuff I really liked.

So I think when I especially when I had the chance to do Speed, I used Allan Holdsworth on that movie and he was a big progressive rock guitar player an amazing guitarist that not a lot of people for some reason know. But that all came out of the progressive rock era. So I was really kind of influenced by that.

Dan Heaton: Well that’s interesting because Speed as far as action films go, it felt like it sounded different than a lot of movies that came before it. So you know you’ve done a lot of action movies like that over your career. Some very early low budget work but then further on. How much did you bring a lot of that prog rock as you went along through some of the other action work you did?

Mark Mancina: I think so yeah. And I think especially if you listen to the overture to Speed that was so great that we got to do it. The movie opens with music, and I got to write that after I had pretty much figured out all the themes it had it going.

That was like writing a little three-minute progressive rock piece really for me. You know I brought it into other work. And it’s funny that I’ve ended up working with those guys. I produced Emerson Lake and Palmer and wrote with them I worked with Yes and wrote with them and produced them I worked with Phil Collins. I mean it’s just it’s weird that that all came back around somehow.

Dan Heaton: That’s interesting especially given that you know you worked with Phil Collins on some Disney projects. When you work with someone like Phil Collins or others like that on even a project that’s very different, does that make it easier to connect with like Phil on Tarzan for example?

Mark Mancina: Totally because you know like he sent me what I got on Tarzan was I got his demo of “You’ll Be in My Heart”. They needed it to fit into the story of Tarzan. And so I worked like I always worked with Elton John’s stuff on Lion King too. I just basically erased the demo and kept the vocal and arranged around the vocals. And so I did that with you’ll be in my heart and sent it to Phil, and he absolutely loved it. I think he loved it because we came you know our backgrounds are similar and I listen to him growing up and his band and I knew his style and I knew it really well.

And so it was really somewhat second nature for me to kind of get into working with him and doing stuff together felt really comfortable. We worked for a long time because we did two movies almost in a row you know and those animated movies are forever so they were you know it’s like seven years or so working together. So it was really pretty fun.

Dan Heaton: That’s interesting because I think of that song and compare it to like I would never have known that you did that because you listened to it and you say that sounds like a Phil Collins song especially more recent stuff that sounds like Elton John. So I think that made a huge difference.

Mark Mancina: You know he really had his thing. I mean Phil has a thing that’s undeniable. It just was that I was able to wrap music around him that he was really comfortable with and he didn’t feel like, where are you going with this man?

I mean I did throw a few things out of him at one point we did a song for Brother Bear and I had the guy that played harmonica. Tommy Morgan who played on Green Acres and I mean everything you know and Beach Boys albums, and I had him bring in all these harmonicas and put these bass harmonicas and stuff on one of Phil’s songs and he was kind of looking at me a little bit like what are you doing here.

You know for the most part everything that I worked on with Phil or I’d come up with a section or come up with a part of something or play it from him. He generally would love it because it was right down the line of what he was sort of used to. And I was a I’m a huge Tony Banks fan and so I knew that style really quite well and they’ve worked together for many years so I felt real comfortable working with them.

Dan Heaton: I want to circle back a bit you know because I have focused a lot with this podcast is Disney and such so I’m curious you know you started out. You worked on The Lion King the film first version. How did you get started working with Disney on that project?

Mark Mancina: It was kind of two different ways. You know one way it was that I had a little bit of a relationship with Chris Montan who was the head of music for Disney for many years especially for their comeback. You know when they kind of came back with these greats like The Little Mermaid and Beauty and The Beast in those movies and The Lion King, and he was kind of steering that ship in the music department.

I had met him a few times so he knew of me and then I was working with hands-on stuff that Hans was doing, and he was telling me about this little lion movie that he was going to do and that he needed basically kind of let’s you know why don’t you do the songs and I’m going to do the score. I mean we started off with “Circle of Life” together. But I think he did “Be Prepared” and then right in that I grabbed “Can’t Wait to be King”? And those songs weren’t really working at that point with the directors. The songs weren’t working well because they were not African at all and they didn’t fit into the story.

But again I felt really comfortable going into it they didn’t have any idea who I was of course. Hans asked me to come into it. I came into it and I just started working on stuff and writing stuff and going in the studio and recording with people and we developed those songs and they became somewhat iconic. I mean “Hakuna Matata” who doesn’t know that song I guess right.

Dan Heaton: That’s crazy because you think of all those movies that came at that time but The Lion King especially given the Broadway musical that I know you were very closely involved in the action movie they’re going to do. I mean that one held up so well over the years in a lot of it is the music. So you mentioned Hans Zimmer who worked on the music. You knew him from before that you’d worked with them regularly.

Mark Mancina: Well again you know this is one of those weird things the reason I met him was I was recording my own songs in L.A. with a producer and he brought in an engineer to mix my songs and the engineer he brought in was a guy named Jay Rifkin who was Hans Zimmer’s partner. When Jay heard my songs he said, do you have any instrumental stuff?

Do you write anything to a picture already kind of thing. And I’m like, yeah of course I’ve done documentaries. I’ve done all sorts of things, and I gave him three demo cassette tapes and next day I got a call from Hans and he said, come on into the studio and I went in and I started working with Billy Idol. And I think it was or True Romance or something. I don’t remember what we did but we just started doing stuff together that was really fun.

Dan Heaton: It’s crazy how things work out that way where you know you’re in the right place at the right time and it changes.

Mark Mancina: I was probably 30 at that point or whatever I was and I mean I you know then I moved to England I lived with Emerson Lake and Palmer for a year. Things went all different directions. But that came back around that relationship with him with Hans and then of course with The Lion King and then Hans went to DreamWorks and because I had worked so closely with Disney on The Lion King, they really knew me at that point and had a lot of trust in me.

Mark Mancina: So when The Lion King musical came up, I was their first go to and I think then with Tarzan and those movies, it just it just seemed to fit and everything you know rolled on and it’s been a really great relationship with them.

Dan Heaton: Now it seems kind of commonplace that there’s a lot of movies that become musicals like the other direction. But it was not that way when The Lion King came out especially with Disney films. So how challenging was it to convert music or create new music? I know you did for that musical.

Mark Mancina: It was very challenging. And it was it was very challenging because it’s very complicated. Theater is a very complicated process anyway. But this theater was extremely complicated because I had to put together a band that could play pop music like Elton John’s songs but it could also play orchestral music and could also play African-influenced music. Julie Taymor really wanted to be very true to Africa and use real African instruments and all of those things sound really delicious and great. But when you get in there and start working on it and you’ve got “Hakuna Matata” you know it’s you just it’s definitely a difficult concept.

It took a long time, and I really had to take a break from basically from Hollywood and from movies and I was kind of it a really good point I had a lot of hit movies and I was making really great money but to do this I really had to go away and go to Minnesota and go to New York a lot and really kind of live in a theater world, which is very different.

Mark Mancina: So it was it was very valuable and wonderful to try. But it did kind of stall out my movie career a bit because I really you know as soon as you leave they forget about you, and they don’t you know you’re not the next best thing. So it’s difficult getting back into it.

Dan Heaton: How were you able to kind of get over that and basically get back into movies because you’ve done a lot of big movies even since that point obviously.

Mark Mancina: I don’t know. You know I don’t know the answer to that. I mean all I can tell you is it’s such a strange business; it’s so unpredictable. Antoine Fuqua had gotten a hold of me and we did a movie called Bait and then he couldn’t wait to start Training Day. And we did that and that did incredible and the music to that movie was very influential to a lot of projects. But interestingly I didn’t work with him again after that, and then we did Shooter together and then I’ve never really heard from them again. So it’s just a strange business, you just don’t know when things are going to happen and when things are going to happen and how they’ll happen.

Dan Heaton: I’m sure you have to be really flexible about it because like you said with Antoine is that you worked on something like Training Day that was a huge hit. I mean Oscar-winning for Denzel Washington like you mentioned that music was everywhere. But then who knows who knows why or why it went from there.

Mark Mancina: It’s very weird. And so it’s been an interesting career. It’s never been in one place always moved around it’s been very exciting.

Dan Heaton: In 2003, you did the score for Disney’s adaptation of The Haunted Mansion with Eddie Murphy. That music is interesting of course because you’re converting it or not converting but there’s source music already for the interaction you’re kind of creating something new. So what was that like kind of creating something new, but also using some of that material as guidance.

Mark Mancina: Well again, you know I’ve had experiences that if you look at Lion King you know taking out these songs and Elton John songs and then kind of turning them into not score but certainly a setting that fits the music but fits in with the film and then working on Tarzan and working with some other themes and my themes and combining them and all of that. So it really kind of came second nature.

I love The Haunted Mansion themes and again you know I was working with a great director Rob and a great producer Don Hahn who I had done The Lion King with. So I was working with real familiar people who loved music and were willing to go different ways with the music and try different things and it just makes it really fun and really freeing.

Dan Heaton: I watched the movie and recently the music is great. I mean it drives the story so and it feels a lot more epic. It’s like you have the attraction music but it sounds like you had a giant orchestra to put this together.

Mark Mancina: We did it again you know because Rob was the director he really supported what I what I needed. And you know we had a choir and we had a huge orchestra and we did it at Sony which is my favorite place to record. I really loved doing it. Unfortunately the movie didn’t do that well and it was a bit messy. The picture itself. I thought the music turned out really great. And I still listen to it I think it sounds really good too.

Dan Heaton: Yeah it’s good. I saw that fairly recently there was a few years ago the soundtrack was released and kind of this double CD edition and I’m sure that had to be rewarding because it wasn’t something that I believe was out originally.

Mark Mancina: Yeah a lot of my stuff doesn’t get released; I don’t know why that is. It’s just the way it is so I get e-mails all the time for people that want Bad Boys. How old is that? You know but I still get that you have a wonderful thing too.

Dan Heaton: From that time to when new CDs were selling like crazy, I could see it happening more.

Mark Mancina: Yeah. I don’t know. It’s just the way it was. It worked.

Dan Heaton: Yeah I also wanted to ask you about your most recent Disney project that you did which was Moana, which for me is one of the my favorite scores I’ve heard in a long time because it brings that island culture in and seems to fit the movie so well. What was that like to work on that score?

Mark Mancina: It was really great. It was really hard, really hard score. It was exciting to work in that framework because I’m not a Polynesian music expert of any kind but I went to New Zealand and I listened to tons of groups over there. I listened to lots of music. I worked with Opetaia here in my studio working on all sorts of stuff. Lin Miranda was incredible.

He was great and all of that was wonderful, but really when it came time to really put the score to picture it was really tough because there was so much music and so specific and really I was left to it you know I mean it was it was really myself and Dave Metzger sorting through so much stuff that we had worked on and written.

Mark Mancina: I was involved in that movie as the score writer but I was also a co-songwriter and co-producer of the songs. So all of the songs came through me and all of the score came through me in my studio. And so I had to put all the finishing touches on everything. It was a huge project but I’m really proud of it. I’m really proud and I think it’s a beautiful film and the people I worked with were really great so I have no complaints.

Dan Heaton: How long did you work on that?

Mark Mancina: Three and half years I think. It was definitely three. You know a lot of people think that Disney movies that they come in with like Moana and they have a script and a story and then they animate it and then you score it. But it’s just so not like that Moana was an idea that we started working on when we started and it became over the years the story would change and change and change and change, the grandmas dead at the beginning, the grandmas not dead, there is no grandma .

I mean you go everywhere and you score ideas in your head that you’re thinking that could happen that aren’t there yet and it’s really a long and arduous process. But it’s the reason why John Lasseter makes great movies. I mean he very rarely misses on anything because he takes that kind of time in that kind of sensitivity when he comes into a project. So for me it was a great privilege. Really.

Dan Heaton: Yeah. And that’s something we totally miss because they come out it’s almost like magic when those films come out it’s like wow that’s amazing. I can imagine the way you’re describing it sounds difficult for every level of a movie but especially to compose songs. I mean how were you able to keep it all straight? Like you know in your head and which themes you were doing that was it was it was really tough.

Mark Mancina: I have a great person who runs my studio, Marlon, and he runs my studio and then I have Dave Metzger who is a great orchestrator and that was it. You know I don’t have 17 people doing my stuff. So I mean you know it was a tremendous amount of work. But our fingerprints are on every single note of that thing. So when it turns out really well like that, you feel like that’s a job well done. So it was definitely worth doing, but it was really…I can’t not say it was an extremely hard, probably one of the hardest things I’ve ever done. That and I would say the Lion King musical are probably the hardest things.

Dan Heaton: Well I think though that our work shows up because you can tell the music feels like someone spent years working on it. You mentioned Lin Manuel Miranda and Opetaia and I mean there’s shots even on the Blu ray of the three of you just kind of working through these songs together. I think when you started was pre-Hamilton explosion and everything. So what was it like to work with both guys being so talented and having such different mentalities?

Mark Mancina: Well you know for one thing we got along really well because all three of us are songwriters. So thank God because there’s a difference. Some people call themselves a songwriter, but they haven’t really written many songs. Lin is a songwriter, Opetaia is a songwriter, and I’m a songwriter. We’ve written hundreds and hundreds of songs, so we really could relate to each other on that level. And so it wasn’t competitive.

It wasn’t anything other than inspiring because we couldn’t really do what each other did. I can’t do what Lin does. I mean his lyrics and his ability to come up with storytelling is incredible. Opetaia of course with his whole Polynesian band on everything was like…give me a break. The guy knew the culture and could chant and sing all sorts of ideas that we would have never come up with. And of course what I do is something that those two guys don’t and can’t do. So it was a really great combination.

I have to hand it to I guess it was probably Chris Montan at that time and Tom McDougall for thinking that that would work. You know because that’s a strange combination of people. I mean one guy from New York who’s a theater guy and one guy who’s a score person basically and another guy who’s a Polynesian singer folk singer guy. Yeah, that could have been disastrous in some respects, but it really worked out great.

Mark Mancina: It’s just that Lin became so famous so quickly, and that thing just Hamilton exploded and it just made it more difficult to be together because he was so in demand and his schedule and everything became difficult. But you know he delivered on everything. So I mean he did his thing.

Dan Heaton: Yeah. I can imagine that would be a challenge. But like you mentioned, it’s an inspired pairing because you think of songs like “We Know the Way” and stuff…everything that kind of merges together in this new way that I don’t even know what exactly type of music to call it.

Mark Mancina: You know with “We Know the Way.” I mean that’s a really good example because we did that here in Carmel. I think we had a meeting in L.A. and then they flew us back here where I live. But the other guys of course we sat here in the studio with this idea that that appetite had returned. Lin ran over and scratched some lyrics down quickly, and we went into that my studio and Lin laid down the vocals and that’s the finished product. I mean that’s what you hear in the movie and that was done here very early on and it’s just was so inspired and it just came together so nicely that we kept it.

And those are the kind of things I wanted to do a lot more of that and we couldn’t because Lin couldn’t you know he couldn’t be here for three days or four days. He didn’t have that kind of time, and he couldn’t travel across the country when he was in the middle of everything. So it was just a little bit harder to do those things. We still came up with some really great things, but we weren’t able to just sit and experiment like we were doing on that right.

Dan Heaton: I think it’s…I mean it’s hard to say what’s the best song on that soundtrack, but that when you can really feel the collaboration when you hear it all come together. I know we’re going to finish soon, but I wanted to quickly ask a few things about the theme parks and things you worked on the show Rivers of Light. I know that Don Harper was very involved with that show, but you were involved in writing several songs at least for that. So what was kind of your experience working on that nighttime show at the Animal Kingdom?

Mark Mancina: Well I started…gosh man…I think this is back in Moana time, and I had no idea really how long that project was going to go on. I thought it was you know something I would do because I’ve done other things for them I did the Walt Disney resort in Hawaii with a great Hawaiian ancient tribal singer and I’ve done other things for them like that. But this thing went on for a really long time…Rivers of Light.

So I started by writing the song, which is kind of the main theme of the show. David Metzger and I worked on it quite a bit and wrote a lot of stuff and then kind of what happened is I got really sucked into Moana and Moana started to get so heavy that we just couldn’t complete Rivers of Light and we knew Don. We worked with him for years. Don and I worked together forever. We knew Don could take over and really put it together, which he did. That was kind of my relationship on that it was it was very busy at the beginning of it. And then as I said I kind of got sucked into Moana land.

Dan Heaton: After what you just said about Moana, I can’t imagine doing another project really yet at the same time. And Rivers of Light was supposed to open in 2016 then became 2017. They finally opened it. I think it’s great, but it was definitely another one of those projects that I think took a lot longer than expected. You mentioned that music from Aulani which is great. I haven’t been there yet, but I’ve heard the music. And how did you get involved working on that?

Mark Mancina: You know again Chris Montan called me and said I’ve got this really weird project where you would get together with this Hawaiian singer and create songs together and then the songs would play in a resort. And the way that they did it with the speaker system is you hear instrumentally the music outside as you come in and you start to hear the vocals. And it was just it just a strange project and it ended up being really fun. I got to work with Kealii’i and that was amazing. And we did some great recording together and we wrote together and again it was kind of a meeting of two people that probably would never have worked together but ended up okay.

Dan Heaton: That seems to be kind of a through line. A lot of your career is just working with a lot of different types of artists and finding a way to make something good.

Mark Mancina: I’m currently doing a musical that opens in Chicago in April, and it’s the same thing. It’s August Rush which I did years ago. But you know I’m working with a book writer and you know it’s a different world you know and it’s exciting because it’s not another movie. It’s not a motion picture. It’s a different medium but yet it’s music and it’s creating and it’s writing and it has all those hallmarks so it’s exciting.

Dan Heaton: Well that sounds great. And I know you worked on the August Rush originally on the movie, so this is another case where you’re kind of converting something to a new format I guess.

Mark Mancina: Yeah and this one’s really challenging because in August Rush. Well it has to be told the songs in theater in August Rush the movie there was a lot of you know silence and just looking and visual art but in theater you got to kind of keep the storytelling going. So it has its own challenges; so it’s now another toughie.

Dan Heaton: Well this has been great. Mark is there are there any other projects are you looking to in the future that you’re currently working on that you wanted to mention.

Mark Mancina: Well not really. I mean I think that Lin and I have been talking about another project together that looks like we’re going to do. So that’s really exciting and I don’t know you know the status of John Lasseter right now because I’m not sure what his plan is since he left Pixar but I’ve done three movies with him and I really loved it. They came out great and I think he loved working with me so I’m hoping that we do something else in the future because I really enjoyed working with them.

Dan Heaton: Well the collaborations in the future, especially with Lin, sound amazing and good luck with all that and I really appreciate you being on the podcast.

Mark Mancina: My pleasure Dan. Thank you.